PES Improvements AMA Thread - Comments will open on 1/31!

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    Stephanie Liu

    Hi everyone! Welcome to our first-ever Ask Me Anything on Product Engagement Score! We will start at 11am EST but feel free to start dropping your questions in. Anything is fair game on PES, including questions about how PES has improved, how to use PES, or even why your PES matters! We have our PES team here ready to answer your questions:

    Please note, to help with readability, we will be editing your comments so that we can link answers directly to each question.

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    Olivia MacDougal

    Hi all and good morning from sunny Boulder, CO! ☀️  Excited to be here answering all your PES related questions! What are you curious about? What are you confused by? What are you interested in knowing more about?

    - Olivia

     

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    Spike Hains

    What do you recommend relative to managing or choosing Core Events to teams with an application that has many (hundreds) of features/pages and different customer types using various combinations of those features/pages?

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    Thanks, Spike Hains! Olivia MacDougal is happy to answer your question!

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    Hi Spike, great question - this is one I've heard from lots of customers! What I usually recommend is start by getting all the Product stakeholders for that application in a room and ask the question - "What are our key use cases?". While you may have tons of different features/pages, not all of them are indicative of your customers finding value in your product. Bring both gut-feel and data to that conversation i.e. what are the features that lead to high retention? What features have high adoption? Narrow in to the ones that align with your company priorities and make the value of your product really clear to you customers, and let the data guide you!

    In other news, we are considering (currently in early stage of discovery) building Core Events by Product Area later this year which should help alleviate some of the pressure to limit yourself to just 10! 

    - Olivia ☀️

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    Liz Feller

    Does Pendo have any recommendations on "use this configuration" if your customers use your core events on a pretty predictable/seasonal schedule? In the ed-tech space, we want to keep "time of year" in context when looking at the PES and trends over time.

    Liz Feller thanks for your question. Lara John, Olivia MacDougal will answer shortly!

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    Hi Liz Feller! I recommend that you pick your configuration based on how users use your application, not when. For example, if you expect all your visitors to access all parts of your application, then I’d recommend measuring by “visitor”. If visitors are only expected to use certain parts of your application, but across the account they use all parts of the application, I recommend measure by “account”.

    To account for the seasonality of your business, I would recommend selecting a “custom” date range to compare the different cycles of the business. Unfortunately, depending on your seasonal trends, the trending chart still may not give you exactly what you're looking for. We don't have anything specific in our roadmap to address this but in the future we are looking to add a PES API and add PES to account reports which will allow you to pull the seasonal data more easily.

    - Lara

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    Gayle Hess

    Hello from Pittsburgh, PA.

    How can I convince stakeholders to "graduate" from tracking individual scores and move up to tracking PES? 

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    Gayle Hess, thanks for your question. Doug Nicholson will be happy to answer in a few minutes!

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    First, I would focus on the ease of use when evangelizing PES. Rather than looking at many different spreadsheets of user behavior, you can pretty confidently boil it down to adoption (how deeply your customers are using your product), stickiness (how frequently they return), and growth (new user growth). Understandably, your product manager stakeholders may feel like they will miss out on a key insight if they only use the 3 PES components to evaluate product engagement. To address why you should use PES from the standpoint of effectiveness or validating that the approach is proven, I would stick to these points:
    • Pendo is always evaluating whether the PES scores make sense. I would encourage your stakeholders to take a more detailed look at how these are calculated.
    • Stickiness has been a standard for product engagement for a long time.
    • Growth is based on quick ratio, which is a growing industry standard for product growth, and has been used for a long time within finance teams--it takes into account churn, new customers, and recovered customers.
    • Adoption is as much an intentional consulting framework as it is a score. It's not magic--its very deliberate. You can include anything you want in your core events! We encourage customers to make this a very deliberate exercise. Bring in your analysts and your data scientists alongside your product managers and brainstorm what features you think drive user engagement. That's what we did at Pendo on our own product.
    • Finally, Pendo is proving that PES works. We looked at a year-long cohort of Pendo accounts and assessed how well we could use PES as a leading indicator of churn and upsell. Spoiler alert--it's pretty good! We'll be releasing a more technical read of this PES case study soon.

    --Doug

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    DMYTRO PROTSYK

    Are there plans to have a "PES" by product area? For a relatively complex product, we're missing the middle layer between feature-level metrics and PES.

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    Thanks, DMYTRO PROTSYK! Olivia MacDougal will answer shortly!

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    Hi Dmytro, yes! We are currently in early discovery of exactly that. The current thinking is enabling Core Events by Product Area and then being able to calculate and provide PES by Product Area based on those. No real timelines on the delivery of that cause again we're still in the problem discovery phase (so the final solution is still up in the air), but would love to know more about how PES by Product Area would help answer that "missing middle layer"! 

    - Olivia ☀️

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    Jason Lott

    Similar to Spike's question - was there any thought for the Adoption part of the score to offer a setting so we could select "any of these Core Events" or "all of these Core Events"? I think that would make it a bit more useful when here's a broad user base that doesn't necessarily have access to the same functionality.

    Alternatively I know for awhile there has been a suggestion about offering more than one set of Core Events.

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    Thanks, Jason Lott! Olivia MacDougal can provide her perspective!

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    Hi Jason, nice to hear from you again (for those that don't know, Jason talked about PES during a webinar a few months ago!)! So we actually just changed the Adoption calculation away from ANY vs ALL. Very few of our customers met the criteria to have "ALL" Core Events usage and while "ANY" Core Event usage represents some Adoption, it doesn't actually give you a particularly clear picture. For example, 1 visitor comes in and uses 1 Core Event then never comes back -- that would still count towards your score, which while it should, the old calculations gave you an inflated sense of Core Event adoption, because that's not particularly meaningful usage. We replaced it with Average Core Event adoption. So yes, you might have different personas, but as long as the average is going up overall (or for that particular persona segment), we find its a better picture of adoption. Hopefully that helps explain the change - let me know if it doesn't! 

    We are also working on the More Core Events problem! Currently, we're exploring a number of ways to solve it - Core Events by Product Area, PES in Data Explorer (i.e. select any 10 events), etc. Keep an eye out in the coming months/quarters as we work through discovery and solutioning! 

    - Olivia ☀️

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    Jennifer Cozine

    New Pendo users/new EE. My company is not using Pendo to its fullest. So I am excited to use it more. I am not sure where to start with PES, we are doing minimal walk-through guides for new product feature releases, and tracking currently in the system. Is there a good starting out guide or best practices I should consider before diving in? 

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    Hi Jennifer Cozine, thanks for your question! We have several resources available to help you get started on PES. What we always recommend is to first start with selecting your key features or your Core Events, because this will enable team members to align on the key parts of your product that lead to adoption and product success. Here are a few resources to get you started on Core Events and PES!

    Hope these resources are helpful!

    -Stephanie

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    Astrid Hussonnois

    Hello from South of California,

    How can we compare PES scores across accounts, on 1 single view? Will a report be developed to do so (PES scores + Core events data)?

    Thanks Astrid Hussonnois! Lara John is happy to answer your question!

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    Hi Astrid Hussonnois! The best way to do this today is by using the account filter on the PES page. We understand that this isn't a great solution if you have a lot of accounts but we have plans to address this! Adding a PES API is on our roadmap and after that we are planning to add PES to account reports. We'd love to know more about what "core events data" you are interested in seeing! 

    - Lara 

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    DMYTRO PROTSYK

    Tangentially related to PES: We'd love to have the time-to-first use widget for all features - not just the core events. It's very powerful. Any plans there?

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    Thanks DMYTRO PROTSYK! We love your questions! Olivia MacDougal - any thoughts here?

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    Hi again, Dmytro! I love this question and totally see the need for this. This has been on our backlog for awhile and it's something I hope to address super soon as quality of life improvement for Core Events! Our roadmap this year is all about better analytics - making it more powerful for advanced users and easier to use for all users - and this fits perfectly into that! 

    - Olivia ☀️

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    DMYTRO PROTSYK

    After the move to include reactivated users, there's some confusion on what they are. E.g.:

    • Dropped - Visitor or Account was present last period but is not present in the current period

    When looking at the timeline in the drill-down sidebar, what are "last" and "current" for a period in the past? Say we're looking at 30 days at the end of January. Is dropped for December = "users active in November who didn't log in in December"? Or is dropped in December = "users active in December who didn't log in till January"? 

    Thanks DMYTRO PROTSYK! Lara John can help clarify!

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    Hi DMYTRO PROTSYK! Our time periods look backwards. So in this case, December = "users active in November who didn't log in in December". When you hover of the label on the chart, a pop up should appear showing you the exact dates we are using for "current period".

    - Lara

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    Samantha Lawson

    I would like to export the utilization data for Core Events only per Account. Is this possible? Ideally, I would like this to automatically integrate into a CRM that is used by our Success Team. Currently we only track number of events per Account with this integration, but allowing our Customer Success team to easily view the utilization of the Core Events on an account level would really improve their calls with our Customers. Is this possible? I am happy to share more details if necessary. 

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    Thanks, Samantha Lawson! Lara John will answer shortly!

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    Hi Samantha Lawson! Thanks for your question! You can add individual feature/page data in account reports today. We have plans in our roadmap to add PES to account reports.  We'd love to hear more about what type of "utilization data for Core Events" you are interested in!

    - Lara

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    DMYTRO PROTSYK

    For an enterprise product, we found that (customer) age with us matters. There are different expectations in years 1, 2 and beyond. I've always felt this area untackled in Pendo which is why we do "age"-based analysis outside the tool. Is there any consideration given to it in PES? I.e. distinguishing growth from new accounts vs growth within existing accounts, etc.

    This can be achieved with segments to some extent, but would require the ability to easily compare PES across segments - a notion touched on above.

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    Thanks, DMYTRO PROTSYK. At the moment, we have not incorporated age-based analysis within PES, but certainly, it is good feedback and something to explore and consider for the future.

    --Stephanie

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    Jana Ferguson

    We have the same need as Samantha above. In order to action this type of information and harness it for broader retention and adoption programs, we need to be able to segment accounts into groups to target with specific remediation or cross-sell/upsell programs with our Customer Success org. Looking accounts up one by one isn't feasible. We need to be able to combine usage data/PES with licensing information that exists in our CRM, as well as having the PES scores there to be able to provide greater visibility to our entire organization. 

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    Thanks, Jana Ferguson. Olivia MacDougal will answer shortly!

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    Hi Jana, thanks for your question and your feedback on this topic and your use case previously! We have actually started work on a PES API that should be ready in the coming quarter and will allow you to pull PES data out of Pendo and put it... well, where you want it! After that work is completed, we'll be able to add PES to Visitor and Account Reports, so stay tuned! 

    - Olivia ☀️

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    Astrid Hussonnois

    Thank you Lara John for your reply! Glad to read that you are developing a PES API; would it also give the possibility to integrate the data in our product or in a CSM tool (thank you Samantha Lawson for asking the question)?

    Regarding the Core Events data, I mentioned it because I built a report (very manual!) displaying, for all accounts, the following columns: 

    1. Accounts or Segments
    2. PES
    3. Adoption 
    4. Stickiness
    5. Growth
    6. Core Events (behind the adoption score) -> % of active
    7. # of visitors (current period)

    It is more or less a report showing the PES and the drilldown on 1 view, without having to click in each section to see the details.

    The goal of that report is to:

    • Benchmark the behavior of the accounts over time
    • Assess the effectiveness of the Core events we've selected
    • Compare the PES and above data with the metrics we have in our product

    And I just saw that you just replied to some of it, to Samantha, Jane and Dmytro. Thank you!

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    Stephanie Liu

    Thank you so much for joining our AMA on PES. We had so much fun answering your questions and hearing your thoughts on PES! For further reading, please refer to these resources:

    Got more questions? Feel free to post your additional questions in the PES Discussion Community and we will be sure to answer them!

    --Stephanie

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